Wednesday, 15 August 2007

gr.group theory - Characteristic subgroups and direct powers

Solved question: Suppose H is a characteristic subgroup of a group G. Is it then necessary that, for every natural number n, in the group Gn (the external direct product of G with itself n times), the subgroup Hn (embedded the obvious way) is characteristic?



Answer: No. A counterexample can be constructed where G=mathbbZ8timesmathbbZ2 (here mathbbZn is the group of integers modulo n) with H the subgroup



(0,0),(2,1),(4,0),(6,1)



This subgroup sits in a weird diagonal sort of way and just happens to be characteristic (a quirk of the prime 2 because there isn't enough space). We find that HtimesH is not characteristic in GtimesG.



(ASIDE: The answer is yes, though, for many important characteristic subgroups, including fully invariant subgroups, members of the upper central series, and others that occur through typical definitions. Since for abelian groups of odd order, all characteristic subgroups are fully invariant, the answer is yes for abelian groups of odd order, so the example of order 24 has no analogue in odd order abelian groups.)



My question is this:



  1. Strongest: Is it true that if H is characteristic in G and HtimesH in GtimesG, then each Hn is characteristic in Gn [NOTE: As Marty Isaacs points out in a comment to this question, HtimesH being characteristic in GtimesG implies H characteristic in G, so part of the condition is redundant -- as explained in (2)]?

  2. Intermediate: Is there some finite n0 such that it suffices to check Hn characteristic in Gn for n=n0? Note that if Hn is not characteristic in Gn for any particular n, then characteristicity fails for all bigger n as well. I'd allow n0 to depend on the underlying prime of G if we are examining p-groups.

  3. Weakest: Is there a test that would always terminate in finite time, that could tell, for a given H and G, whether Hn is characteristic in Gn for all n? The "try all n" terminates in finite time if the answer is no, but goes on forever if the answer is yes. In other words, is there a finite characterization of the property that each direct power of the subgroup is characteristic in the corresponding direct power of the group?

ADDED: My intuition, for what it's worth, is that those subgroups H of G that can be characterized through "positive" statements, i.e., those that do not make use of negations or ne symbols, would have the property that Hn is characteristic in Gn. On the other hand, those whose characterization requires statements of exclusion (not a ...) would fail because negative statements are difficult to preserve on taking direct powers. But I don't know how to make this rigorous.

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